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Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Have things changed around the
control you have over your recordings since you moved from ECM to
your own record label?
Dave Holland: Well yes, of course, and this is the reason for the
change. I had a very positive relationship with ECM for 34 years,
but at this time I saw it as a good opportunity to take more responsibility.
It was something I wanted ten years ago but at that time it was
not possible.
So the big purpose for me is, first of all, ownership of my own
masters, and secondly to be able to take advantage of the new methods
of distribution, not only hard copy through regular distribution
in stores but also using electronic downloads, which are becoming
more and more important.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What´s your opinion about
the Internet and piracy, and how they have impacted the music industry?
Dave Holland: Personally I don´t worry about this because
I see it as a very good opportunity. I think it is a very good thing
that people can get free music as well, and my purpose also is to
give music free on the site as well as possibilities for paying
for this.
And my feeling is that recordings are mostly promotion for our
concerts, and this is the main purpose. Our income, our money income,
is coming much more from our performances than from recordings,
so I think that it´s a good thing that people hear the music.
And last, I think that what we are doing with the web site, which
is beginning in October, is to allow people to download one track,
not necessarily just the whole album, so this gives more choice.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Steve Coleman has a few web sites
where you can download many of his tracks…
Dave Holland: I have also. I´ve had a web site for about
ten years now, and you can order Big Band scores, lead sheets, electronic
press kits... many things. www.daveholland.com is the advert, so
people can find that.
© Pablo Olmos Sánches, 2005
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Tell us about how M-Base has influenced
your music.
Dave Holland: I don´t know, I don´t have opinion, you
know, I played with many musicians that are, were a part of M-Base
as Robin Eubanks of course, Geri Allen, Marvin “Smitty”
Smith, Steve Coleman, but I was never a member of this group.
So, you know, in my life, one of the ways I learn about music is
from the musicians that I play with. And so, I would say, everybody
that I have played with has given me a great gift of their inspiration
as well, and of course, these musicians that I spoke of were part
of that, but I don´t see that..., I would never say, you know,
this group, M-Base..., really it was only a collective of individuals,
it was not a philosophy of music, it was a group of individuals
and each one had their own approach.
So when you say did M-Base influenced me, this means nothing to
me. Because I am influenced by people, not by an organisation.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What exactly is Robin Eubanks’
role? He always seems to have been a leader within the band, your
right-hand man?
Dave Holland: No, he´s a good friend, he´s a great
friend, and a great musician and a very important part of the music
we play, you know...
May I ask a question? I understand from the questions that you
are trying to find some special connection between the members of
M-Base and the music I play? And I sense that maybe you are a big
fan of this music, is this correct? It´s true yes?
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Well, the thing is that even though
it´s me asking the questions, the interview has been prepared
by people that participate in this Internet forum Tomajazz, and
many of these people are familiar with musicians related to M-Base
like Cassandra Wilson, Steve Coleman...
Dave Holland: So the question about Robin is that he´s managing
me?
© Pablo Olmos Sánches, 2005
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Or if whether he has participated
in managing or leading the band...
Dave Holland: Well, not really, you know, when I have a group,
my idea is that the musicians in the group contribute their total
creativity, this is what I would like for them because this way
they have the most expression of their creative ideas.
So in all the bands that I´ve had, my hope is that the musicians
will contribute whatever they have, whether it´s composition,
playing, musical ideas... This is what makes a group, and every
group that I have been part of, Miles Davis, many other groups,
Stan Getz and so on, I have functioned this way with the band. This
music is a group music and, at it´s finest, is when everybody
is giving everything, and so I invite the musicians that I play
with to do that.
So Robin has given everything in the music. He writes, he plays,
he´s a good friend, we talk about music... But we speak of
music with everybody. In the Big Band we discuss ideas, we share
ideas. This is the creative process.
But, you know, there are many responsibilities that I have also,
which are to present a big picture of what we are trying to do,
and I ask for the musicians help in this of course you know, because
without them I cannot do it. This is the tradition, this is the
tradition of Duke Ellington, of Miles Davis. There is somebody who
is creating a plan, but there are also musicians who are making
this plan a reality.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What jumps out at us after a first
look at the line-up for the “Jazz en la costa” festival
in Almuñécar is the presence of musicians like Joe
Zawinul or Kenny Garrett or yourself, that have played in different
bands with Miles Davis...
Dave Holland: Well, just recording, Joe Zawinul was not in the
group, he didn´t tour, but he contributed a lot to the recordings
and compositions sometimes...
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What we mean is that it is a nice
coincidence, some sort of reunion or gathering...
Dave Holland: A gathering of Miles people... Beautiful!
© Pablo Olmos Sánches, 2005
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: So, what memories do you have of
Miles?
Dave Holland: My memory is that he was... For me in many ways,
you know, a great leader because he led by example and he let the
musicians find their own creative path in his music, and he was
generous for this, because some band leaders they make their music
for them, “I am the band leader, it´s me”, you
know, and Miles was not like this, he would play his solo and then
he would leave and step aside and the band would play and this was
always. I never felt Miles was trying to prove anything or make
himself bigger than he really was, he was already big, he didn´t
have to try. So this was the thing I remember the most of him.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: How has the switch from Billy Kilson
to Nate Smith affected the band?
Dave Holland: I think that Nate is a great drummer and he brings
a lot of imagination to the music. Billy Kilson also was a great
drummer you know, but there are times when a change has to happen
for some reason, can be many reasons, and I have met Nate Smith
about five or six years ago, at a college, where I was doing a short
teaching and I heard him and I said ah, this is a great drummer,
a great young drummer, and so some gigs Billy Kilson could not do
and I asked, -“Nate, can you play?” And he –“ah,
yeah, fantastic...”, so about nearly two years ago now he
began working with the Quintet at full-time and of course with the
Big Band.
He´s a very positive energy, always gives 100% of himself
to the music and I think this is the best so...
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Have you ever considered incorporating
a piano in your ensembles? As a fan of your music, I think it could
add some colour that might be very interesting.
Dave Holland: Well you know, for a special occasion yes. Two weeks
ago I was at the “North Sea Festival” in Den Haag, and
I had a piano player in my band, and I´m happy to say it was
Herbie Hancock! We made a special program for North Sea, we had
one concert with Herbie Hancock, Jack DeJohnette, Chris Potter and
myself, the second concert was the Big Band and the third concert
was a new project that I have with Trilok Gurtu, the percussionist,
in duets, with bass and percussion, and so, this was the program.
To get back to the piano question. The reason I use vibraphone
at the moment is because of Steve Nelson, this is the reason, because
he is the most incredible musician, and I like the economy of the
vibraphone. The piano can sometimes be very dominant in the music,
and unless you have perhaps Herbie Hancock or somebody, which you
know, is rare... Then, you know, I look for somebody who can support
the harmony but not dominate it. And for me guitar can do this sometimes,
some guitarists, Kevin Eubanks I used to work with, and now Steve
Nelson. So this is the reason. It keeps an open texture to the harmony
and specially in the Big Band. When you have writing, you know,
then you don´t want a lot of chords from the piano to be fighting
with the band, you know.
Concierto en Almuñécar, Granada. Festival Jazz en
la Costa, 2005
©Diego Ortega Alonso, 2005
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: You seem to be very influenced
by African music...
Dave Holland: I wouldn´t say strictly African music, but
we speak of the African Diaspora, so you have, you know, unfortunately
from slavery, the African people were taken to Cuba, to South America,
to America, and from this culture came a music that was rooted in
many traditions from Africa but was developed in new ways, and my
number one influence is jazz music, the jazz tradition, coming from
the African-American heritage, New Orleans, and through the years.
This is my big study as a musician. But, because I love music, and
I love all music, I love music which is real, and which is creative,
I listen to many things you know, I listen to Cuban music, to contemporary
rap music, Missy Elliott and Busta Rhymes, I listen to classical
music sometimes so, you know, all these things are part of the language
that you develop as a musician and then you take these things that
you learn and you try to make a personal statement from them. But
the biggest influence on me I think are the traditions that originated
in Africa and have moved around the world.
Yes, I listen to African music, I have many records in my collection
of African music and I love it also, but I would say the number
one foundation for me is the jazz tradition, so...
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: And having with you such a fantastic
drummer like Smith and a vibraphonist marimbist player like Nelson,
have you never thought of using more percussion (considering your
taste for African music)?
Dave Holland: When you have Nate Smith on drums you have plenty
of percussion, so it´s not a problem! And you know, I mean,
the project with Trilok is also all percussion thing, you know,
I love the percussion thing but, I mean, I look for drummers who
understand that part of the tradition, “Smitty” Smith,
Billy Kilson, they are all understanding the many drum traditions
of the world and they bring this to the music so, for me this is
an important part, is to find drummers which are understanding the
big world picture of percussion, not just the tradition of jazz
and so on.
But also, you know, Nate is coming from church music, and from
rhythm and blues and from hip hop music, you know, these are his
experience too, so he´s bringing these rhythms also into the
music and for me what makes the music more relevant to the contemporary
times is that we´ve been including some of the new language
which is being developed.
Concierto en Almuñécar, Granada. Festival Jazz en
la Costa, 2005
©Diego Ortega Alonso, 2005
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: I think it must have been amazing
to have the chance to work with ECM, where there is such an unbelievable
wide range of musical styles. While we were talking about African
music, that overwhelming record you did with Anouar Brahem came
to my mind. Fantastic...!
Dave Holland: Anouar, yes, incredible yes. I saw Anuar in “North
Sea” just now, because we had not played for two or three
years now, and we were speaking, you know, we said “we must
do it again” so, I hope it´s going to happen. I think
he´s a great musician, we made two tours of Europe together
after the record, after “Thimar”, and it was a great
experience and I look forward to, you know, another chance to...
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: It´s beautiful!
Dave Holland: Ah it´s very beautiful, very special, very
special yes, I agree.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What is going to be the next step
in your career? Any new projects, apart from the Quintet and the
Big Band?
Dave Holland: Trilok… And we are of course recording a new
Quintet record for release next year, so this is another thing,
this is the new recording that will be released, you know. I don´t
have a, really, I did a special project last year which was with
Herbie and Wayne Shorter and Brian Blade, we did some touring in
the summer last year and, you know. I like to really concentrate
on certain things, and so I´m not interested in doing, you
know, ten different projects.
You know, for me the Quintet, the Big Band and now the duet with
Trilok is perfect, it gives me three different environments, musically,
to work with, and I feel very good about this. I could add, you
know, more and more ideas but, first of all, I have only so much
time to tour and I want to be sure that time is given to these projects
so they can develop properly and if I do many things nothing is
really developing, it´s just this now, and then this... It
makes no sense to me as musician to do that, it makes no sense.
I like continuity, that´s important to me that, you know...
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: What do you think of the European
jazz scene at the moment?
Dave Holland: Yes, I think it´s healthy, I mean, you know,
it´s always had a lot of variety what´s going on here
and each country has somewhat it´s own style of approaching
jazz music, they bring something of their culture to it. The situation
in Europe has always been more supportive of jazz than America.
We were in a city yesterday, in Rome, two days ago, and the city
of Rome has created a place that they call “The house of jazz”,
which is in beautiful grounds with a small theatre, a recording
studio, we played out in the grounds an open air concert. But they
had put a large amount of money into this to support the music,
to support it´s local musicians. You find small towns in Europe
that will promote a jazz concert. I mean, this is not a big city
here, but they have a festival and they´re inviting us to
come and... You know, this is a special situation in Europe that
there´s that kind of support, we go to small cities, small
towns sometimes in Italy and the whole town is coming to the concert
in this square, so, you know. That kind of culture, appreciation
of culture is quite good in Europe and, so it has given great support
to jazz. It´s not always so easy for the European musicians,
they are not always so lucky in getting the support but, I mean,
if you go to Holland, to the Netherlands, to Dutch musicians, the
government gives them many opportunities so, there is that support
here which doesn´t exist so much in other parts of the world.
Diego Ortega Alonso - Tomajazz: Thank you very much Mr. Holland,
it´s been an honour.
Dave Holland: Thank you for your patience. It´s been very
good.
Diego, Ana y Pablo.
He aquí a los responsables de esta entrevista: ¡Thank
you !
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